This video contains flight tracks, radio traffic and brief discussion for the crash of PiperSport N126WK at Santa Monica Airport KSMO. Skip to 3:44 if you just want to start the replay of the data.
*PLEASE NOTE* – My comments are pure speculation and observation. As a pilot my opinions may be somewhat informed by experience but should not be taken as statement of fact. This event happened only six hours before making this video and there is very little hard data yet produced for us to rely on.
My intent simply is to get the information that is available out quickly, with some talking points to start a discussion while we wait 18-24 months for the NTSB to publish their findings.
Audio from LIVEATC.NET and flight data from WEBTRAK.
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I would say suicide by pilot. The "student" knew exactly what he was doing and deliberately crashed the plane. Sadly you never know who you give that intro flight to. And it might just be a crazed psycho with voices in the head.
I am a helicopter flight instructor – lots going on in the cockpit during landing and take off.
Students do weird things sometimes. Always guard the controls for the first 20 hours. Until that first 20 hours I’m always very ready. This is a nightmare situation. God bless them both.
Wake turbulence from the King Air wouldn't begin until its wings began to bear weight just prior to liftoff. At the altitude and position of the Sport, that would not be a factor.
Would they demonstrate stalls on a discovery flight?
This was a passenger locking up on the controls… remember punch the person in the nose, and they will let go of the controls. Hit them as hard as you can with a back handed fist the second they don’t do as commanded.
Yes, you can kill them as ‘captain’. You are in total command.
This accident was a wake up call for me as a CFI. I would not always guard the controls during landing practice. Unfortunately it cost the lives of two people for me to realize how quickly an accident can occur during the landing phase. Condolences to the families.
I fly an Evektor very simular to the czecksport and had a passenger freeze up on the controls scared the bejesus out of me , can’t imagine having it happen on short final , very sad
There will not be any probable cause from the NTSB so don't expect it, but its a great place to work! The NTSB no longer exist as formed 1964 it's all about running out the clock and collecting a healthy pension. Not one member is qualified to investigate any transportation accident and along with KR and all the comments from experienced pilots, we can come up with a cause and not probable in less than 5 minutes. I don'e believe even the FAA cares much about any GA accidents anymore either.
I am going to agree with Dan Gryder and say it was pilot personality and the student locked up on the controls and the instructor could not physically make the student release his locked arms.
Flying is great for many but not necessarily suitable for everyone.
Sad incident- I owned a Cruiser for 3 years, after flying a 182 that was tough as boot leather and you could chuck about, the Cruiser required a very delicate touch on the controls. They are a delight to fly but will bight back if handled badly- especially on the approach and flare, it would say to the pilot if you are too fast I will keep flying. The guy who came to my private strip to buy it was not paying serious attention in my several demonstration flights with him. He very nearly crashed on his solo departure.
Prop wash?
These light sport aircraft are very touchy and unforgiving in certain situations . Very unfortunate and my prayers go out these families and loved ones .
Don't these planes have a lockout button or mechanism where the pilot in command can lock out the other controls specifically for situations like this?
I believe the King Air’s wake turbulence (really the prop wash) had EVERYTHING to do with this. There was not enough time delay between their take off and the Piper LSA final approach. 38 seconds between King Air’s roll and the scream. They flew right into their wash and it upturned them. Thanks for this very thorough professional presentation…I just disagree with the analysis. Prop wash does kill so just go around when you are in a tight sequence like this.
The rudder pedals issue was specific to Evektor planes and not applicable to SportCruisers ( completely different plane) As far as strong left turning tendencies – there are some but very minor , nothing a bit of rudder cannot take care of ..
I was at soccer practice at the field next to the airport. Right as they hit they just exploded. Crazy stuff.
The instructor was one of my closest friends that I ever had. We grew up together all the way from 2nd grade and had a 18 year friendship. He loved to fly. It was his passion. Sad to see him gone so young.
One of them said something before i heard "let go" several times. Could anyone make out what was spoken initially? "Take the …."?
I’m going to throw out there this could be a possibility of the prospective student pilot may gave grabbed the controls on short final. The instructor likely fought for the controls, and was fighting for controls for a few seconds before the mic button was pushed. My first discovery flight as a flight instructor almost ended in disaster. The person in the front with me full power slammed on right brake pedal only during rollout from landing. This was after I briefed him only I would be on and manipulated the flight controls on landing and rollout. I yelled at him to get off the brakes, and that only made him jam the brake harder as i pressed the left brake with full left rudder pedal. We did a sharp 90 degree turn to the right and came to a stop. Luckily no bald spots on tire and we stayed on the runway. I chewed him out good.
Assuming the instructor and student were both right-handed and the instructor was in the left seat, the instructor had his non-dominant (left, weaker) hand on the stick and his stronger arm on the throttle. The student, in this case an adult male, would have had his right, stronger arm on the stick. In most people biceps are stronger than triceps, so if the student pulled back hard the instructor would not have been able to counter it. And unfortunately there was no time for the student to see his error and let go. As was noted, someone had their finger on the push to talk button or we wouldn't have heard the exchange. So
The student pilot was my nephew. The family is devastated. He was only 28 yrs old. He was a beautiful soul, caring and good human being. I will always carry him in my heart.
For reference, I own a cruiser. Torque has nothing to do with this… Were they going around? Most people unfamiliar with the plane will end up too high over the runway. It is not going to sink like a Cessna, you have to fly it down. At full flaps, with full trim, if you slam full throttle on a cruiser, it will pitch up violently, you have to be ready for it. You advance the throttle, you don’t slam it forward for that very reason. Because of this, I rarely use full flaps and full trim on landing, unless it is absolutely calm, and I am 100% committed to land. NOT rudder pedals, there is a console between the seats. The Sportcruiser is a great airplane, fun and cheap to fly. But if you try to horse it around like a Cessna, especially at low speed, it is going to bite you in the a….
I think the analysis is good. I was a student at Santa Monica Flyers. I got about my first 25 hours of flying time with them about January to March of this year. I will say they go very slow. I don’t think this was a discovery flight. we were not even touching stalls until about or third or fourth flight. We were not doing go around procedures until after that. this begs the question of why did they only practice one stall. Did the student experience the first stall and started freaking out and wanted to go back to the airport? Your first stall is kind of a scary experience. Maybe the student was locked up and panicking. The student grabbing the controls is the only possible explanation I can come up with for this scenario.
THANK YOU
Too fast, and propeller blades go supersonic at the tips creating massive drag. However, every piston engine which turns clockwise from the pilot seat will produce a left turning tendency. The higher the power, the more torque to deal with. Many piston fighters in WW2 had this problem. With 2,000 HP in your hand, You had to add power gradually, until you had enough rudder force to counter act the torque. I find it unlikely that torque roll was the issue, as rudder control is always maintained by the instructor on a discovery flight.
This would make so much more sense to me if it were overlaid on a sectional chart and not on a tourist map! We fly by sectionals and nothibg else!
Never jam the throttle on fast – go smooth.
This is a close friend of mine, which I have flown with many times. I know his voice and he is certainly saying “let go.” Horrible loss, great pilot who has flown this specific type of aircraft on a daily basis for at least the past 5 years. I think the unusual attitude was a result of the students aggressive reaction to the approach to land on the controls. Thank you for the debrief. Gone too soon, RIP.
Communications are unnecessarily rapid regardless of airspace density. There is enough time between calls to be easily slower and impose calm. This habit of fractured speech with speed is a contributory factor to pilot overload.
Audio suggests a medical situation. One pilot is aware of the control input and screaming to ‘let go’ while the other voice appears to be vocal in seizure. Possibly gripping the controls in an uncontrolled position at approach altitude. An unrecoverable situation.
This is possible = anxiety created by unnecessary tension in ATC coms leading to pre medical seizure in pilot at control. Or random medical seizure involving pilot in control.
I have many years of experience with seizure symptoms and signs and this audio vocalisation is obviously an example of this.
Triggers are over stress, optical fluctuations, lack of medication, dietary, tiredness or general illness.
In this situation I would suggest unnecessary pilot overload and therefore high levels of stress imposed by inadequate communications creating a trigger for seizure resulting in loss of control and subsequent unavoidable fatality.
Power input, flight control in both yaw and pitch would be uncontrollable given seizure with hands and feet on. Explaining audio.
Sounds like panic in the cockpit like someone may have tried assist porpoising on landing.
may or may not have contributed? I do believe? Very strong turning tendencies? Extreme? No true. Let's call it.. Normal… What happens with the LSA? those are amazing trainers! Possible Discovery flight. Agree. Go around? Where? Problems with rudder pedals? What??? So.. Left is right? Right is left? .. Facts no opinions pls…
I heard all this.. But.. It was terrible…
How high was the red jet that overflew KSMO at 1624? If it was low it could have been wake turbulence.
it's my idea or have been many ga crashes in the las days?